7

Congratulations German Language community! We’re going to be creating a custom site design for you that we hope will represent your subject and we want you all to really love it. You’ve been waiting almost three years and we really want to do this well. To facilitate this, we’re reaching out now to ask you for what you’d really love to see in the design and logo.

I'm Katie, one of the Product Designers here at Stack Exchange. I'll be working with our community managers in order to ensure that your custom theme truly reflects your community. As someone who has spent quite a bit of time in Deutschland, I look forward to bringing you something “wunderschön”. 😃

A quick history lesson about site theming

Originally, site designs were part of the site graduation process. When a site left beta, they'd get their design. But, at the time we only had one designer who was working on designs and the designs were very specialized and often involved a lot of custom illustrations. We got into a situation where several sites were in queue for graduation but the designer didn't have the bandwidth to actually create the designs.

Before she worked here, one of our Community Managers, Catija, asked the question Can Beta sites slated for graduation get full-site abilities without site design upgrade? - on Meta Stack Exchange. This kicked off several discussions within the CM team of the time and community members and the eventual decision was to implement "Design-independent graduation" in September 2015. This meant that many sites were finally able to leave beta without waiting on a design!

At that time we also had much more strict guidelines for when a site could graduate - they had to consistently get 10 new questions per day. This level of volume made graduation impossible or very unlikely for many sites - meaning many would stay in beta forever. As such, the CM team considered another request - Let's break up with "Graduation" and remove a bunch of "Beta" labels - and that's what eventually happened, too. In 2019, we removed the beta label from 29 sites - including this one - and another 59 in December 2021.

We've also gone through several design systems changes, including launching Stacks version 1.0, which make creating and building in designs much simpler for both our design team and the developers. In fact, we showed off how flexible it could be in our April Fools prank this year "Filters for Stack Overflow".

What to expect

Over the next few weeks, we'll be communicating with you about your site design, so please help us out as much as you can. While we may not be total experts in German, we know that you are and that you have great ideas about what you want this site to look like - so share them with us! You've got a week now to pool up your thoughts in answers to this question, at which point I'll start working on this site's design.

I'll spend some time working on a design based on your guidance, and will return when I’m ready to share the design and logo. At that point, y'all will have a week to make suggestions for adjustments to the design. Our hope is that there will be little that needs adjusting but, due to the size of our backlog, we can't allow more than one phase of feedback, so any changes will need to be recommended at this point.

We'll then consider the changes proposed and make any adjustments that we feel are beneficial. Changes that are too big or are out of scope likely won't be possible, but we'll make sure to explain why we opted against making a change should that happen. Please understand that design is often a subjective thing and we may end up with community members differing in their opinions, so we'll be taking that into account when deciding. Decisions about the final design will be made by the design team and CMs with the concerns of the community taken into account.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that the goal of these designs is to make something topical, unique, and attractive, but we'll be designing within the scope of our newer site theming. We'll be able to create a logo, background colors, and textures in addition to your logo - but please don't expect illustrations like what you may have seen on some of the older site designs.

Process

Over the next month or so, we’ll be going through a few steps to get your site design up and running. This post is the first of those steps. I’ll also be using this post to track the phases in the table below.

Step Status
Information Gathering complete
Design V1 complete
V1 Feedback in progress
Design adjustments (if needed)
Developer cleanup and shipping of final design

What we need from you

As I've mentioned already, we need some inspiration from you so that we can get started on this design and create something you'll really be proud of. So far, I was able to find one older discussion about logos here on Meta. Feel free to reference them if there are ideas you like already - or give us new ones! If I've missed any, please link them in a comment so we can find them. We're really looking for design ideas rather than needing you to design anything for us.

When you're answering this question, think about:

  • What symbols or images are important to the subject of this site?
    • Especially things that speak to insiders that we might not find on our own
  • Are there any colors that are tied to your subject?
  • What tone/mood/feeling would you like your theme to emit? While this is subjective, it helps to set some design guardrails. So, when answering your thoughts, some good axes to mention are where the theme might sit inside these spectra
    • From fun to serious
    • From classic to modern
    • From simple to complex
  • How could a good logo represent your subject?

If you have any questions, let me know! We're really looking forward to hearing from you and getting your site design underway in a week!

15
  • 1
    Wunderbar. How did we get the honour of being the first site to get a design in years (AFAICT, except for some sponsored sites)?
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 13 at 15:45
  • 2
    Hallo! Our team made a list of the sites that have been waiting for custom themes the longest, and I personally selected this one as I have ties to Germany. I would love to hear your ideas on how you envision a theme for this site.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 13 at 16:00
  • Another question: Do you speak German well enough to understand the old Logo discussion? I am asking because a lot of relevant arguments have been made there and it would be quite some work to adequately translate and summarise everything.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 13 at 16:26
  • @Wrzlprmft: I'll let kplsn answer about their own proficiency if they want – but it seems like Google Translate does a pretty good job at translating that discussion as well, so I think that discussion is relatively understandable that way even for those who don't speak German.
    – V2Blast StaffMod
    May 13 at 16:43
  • 1
    I took a look at that thread earlier- the discussions there are great and very helpful! In regards to the logo, there are quite a few different opinions shared. If this site is able to agree on a specific logo, I can absolutely make sure that it's the one implemented.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 13 at 16:58
  • What is the purpose of a new design? I think, if we don't align on this first, the whole discussion might be in vain. May 13 at 17:06
  • 2
    @JonathanScholbach site designs are a way to create an identity for the site. The beta theme is bland and shared by 100 other sites. While many themes are simple and clean, the primary goal is to give German Language a design that is a nod to the subject and sets it apart from the other sites. Hopefully someone visiting the site will feel like the theme fits the site's subject. This is easier with some themes than others! We're going to do our best to work together with y'all to identify something great!
    – Catija StaffMod
    May 13 at 18:01
  • 1
    It's worth remembering - this is more than just a logo! Perhaps there's words or phrases (not only individual symbols) that's universal to German Language that we could use as a pattern (see Code Golf) or ways of parsing German that are common - there's so many possibilities beyond a single logo and that's the sort of insight and inspiration we need from you all!
    – Catija StaffMod
    May 13 at 18:05
  • @Catija I feared that would be the purpose... May 13 at 23:21
  • 1
    Somewhere buried there is the following related discussion: German SE has launched: What about its design and logo?
    – guidot Mod
    May 16 at 7:45
  • 2
    Thanks for these comments! Just to recap... What we don’t want: 1. Anything directly pertaining to specific countries 2. A logo with only a typically German letter in it What we want: 1. Professional and modern theme 2. Clear, recognisable logo 3. The title to be changed to German Language – Deutsche Sprache
    – kplsn Staff
    May 16 at 18:42
  • 1
    My questions for you: 1. What symbols or images are important to German language specifically? 2. Do any of the other Stack Exchange site designs stick out to you and could be used as inspiration here? 3. How could a good logo represent the German language? Was there anything from the logo discussion post that we might be able to use? Examples of well-designed sites: - dba.meta.stackexchange.com - diy.stackexchange.com
    – kplsn Staff
    May 16 at 18:43
  • For the sites that have gotten a dedicated design already, is there any data how the design changed user behavior / site popularity? Would be quite interesting. May 18 at 10:59
  • 1
    @JonathanScholbach Not that I'm aware of - it's not something that we track but also, most of the sites we would have data on had the "beta" indication removed at the same time as the site design, so any data would be muddled by the confluence of the two, which isn't the case here.
    – Catija StaffMod
    May 19 at 3:34
  • See this followup post for the proposed design: German Language site design and logo — Draft
    – V2Blast StaffMod
    Jun 24 at 18:10

11 Answers 11

10

An important general consideration:

German is not only the official and predominant language of Germany, but also of Austria, large parts of Switzerland, South Tyrol (Italy), Liechtenstein, and East Belgium. Furthermore it has some official status in other countries like Luxembourg and there are more German speakers in Brazil than in the last four regions taken together.

Thus I advise to avoid design choices that say “Germany” rather than “German Language”. For a blatant example, do not use a colour scheme informed by the German national flag.

1
  • 2
    Thanks for clarifying, and yes you are completely right about that. I live in England, but sadly have only visited 1 German-speaking country in Europe, which is why I referenced that. Hopefully will visit more this summer. I will ensure that the design is inclusive to all German-speaking countries, and the language itself.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 13 at 17:00
9

I suggest to make the title bilingual, i.e.:

German Language – Deutsche Sprache

(Without any general preference, whether the two are vertically or horizontally or otherwise aligned.) This is to make it clear that this site is bilingual and particularly that people may ask in German here – which many users do not realise.

1
  • 1
    That's a great point, I will be sure to include that :)
    – kplsn Staff
    May 13 at 20:49
6

Here are some logo ideas I have tried based on the feedback received thus far. Everything here is a draft and nothing is final, this is just about the overall concept.

  1. I liked the comment from Janka about how the colour red appears in all 6 flags from German-speaking countries.
  2. I agree with Jonathan's comment regarding the ä being too similar to Die Ärzte's logo.
  3. Finally, I tried the ß without the point underneath, for a more standard option.

The font I used was FF Meta font by Erik Spiekermann (a famous German typography designer). I researched fonts from designers in all 6 German-speaking countries, but ultimately preferred this one. However, I am happy to go in a different direction as well.

As always, I welcome all feedback or alternative logo ideas. Danke!

enter image description here

10
  • 1
    I think your suggestions for the ß̣ approach have too little of the question-mark aspect (assuming this is what you are going for). I am afraid that no off-the-shelf eszett will serve this purpose well (which is why I didn’t base my suggestions on one), since it will always be too much eszett and too little question mark. At the very least, I would use an ß without the small horizontal bar, since that goes against the fluid shape that question marks usually have.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 13:17
  • 1
    That's a good point, I'll play around with it a bit more. Did you have any preferences for the coloring?
    – kplsn Staff
    May 18 at 15:05
  • I like the font! Colorwise, red on white is my least favorite. (It looks a little aggressive to me.) May 18 at 16:08
  • Is it possible to have a three-color logo? Then an overlay of ß and ? in partly transparent colors could have a chance to look good. May 18 at 16:09
  • @JonathanScholbach: I made some more logo sketches here. So far, my attempts at colour overlays have not been satisfying (to me). I prefer separate lines.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 20:12
  • Regarding colouring, my preference would be the dark red one. The black-and-white ones lack distinctiveness; the grey–blue one and bright red one evoke a synthetic rather than an organic feel, while the dark-red one is more organic. I think organic fits better since language is an organic thing with some history. For example, the dark red is the colour you are most likely to find on book covers, in libraries, etc. while the grey–blue and bright red one seem very difficult to produce in print – they only work on a screen.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 19 at 6:20
  • 2
    I would prefer the wine-red color, which is similar to the one of English Language and different enough from any negatively connotated flag color. I agree with Wrzlprmft, that the the dot is a bit short in communicating the question mark aspect; it seems closer to an underdot diacritic. Of course, the question aspect is not exactly essential, since SE is all about questions, but I like the idea nevertheless.
    – guidot Mod
    May 23 at 8:28
  • 1
    Thank you, guidot! I appreciate your feedback here. :)
    – kplsn Staff
    May 23 at 15:06
  • 2
    In the german-speaking parts of Switzerland we do not have the ß. We use ss instead. I still think the the ß is a good logo for this stack, or at least I don't have a better idea except for ä/ö/ü..
    – kscherrer
    Jun 3 at 13:04
  • 1
    I don't think a regular ß with dot works without explanation, for that approach it would ned to be one of the more inventive versions below. I do thnk ß is a good choice as it's unique to German even if not used in all varieties. One of the more distinctive forms of a capital might be better still, less confusion with "beta" for the uninitiated. Maybe ẞ? which could have connotations of ß and ẞ being optional.
    – misterben
    Jun 15 at 15:10
4

Traditionally, SE site designs do something humorous or surprising for the error, captcha, and 404 page. For example English Language SE uses the classical illustrations of Alice in Wonderland: error, captcha, 404.

Stealing the latter approach, I suggest to use illustrations from Max and Moritz, an illustrated story by poet and illustrator Wilhelm Busch. It is very well known in the German language sphere and which had a considerable influence on the German language with many quotes becoming catchphrases (“geflügelte Wörter”).

The illustrations are public domain now and can be found on Wikimedia Commons. Since they are available in black and white, they can be easily adapted to any colour scheme.

Specific suggestions:

404 – Page not found

Witwe Bolte

Error – Oops! Something Bad Happened!

Max und Moritz fallen in den Teig

Lehrer Lämpel

Schneider Meck

(Maybe crop the image to exclude Max and Moritz.)

Captcha – Human verification

Max und Moritz im Teig

Max und Moritz als Körnermuster

2
  • 1
    This is helpful, thanks Wrzlprmft. I appreciate how much thought you have put into this.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 26 at 15:31
  • 1
    Just a remark: Most of the images are also available in color on commons.
    – PMF
    Jun 14 at 18:58
3

To throw a wild and unpolished idea for a logo out there:

How about combining an eszett and a question mark, e.g.:

logo sketches

more sketches

yet another sketch

Note: All the colours are random. It’s only to say: “I envision the colour of this part to be the same/different/blend than those of other parts.”

Rationale:

  • A one-letter logo suggestion with some support was the ß. It is also the one letter that is practically exclusive to the German language.

  • Question mark because you can ask questions here. And one common question about the German language is when to use the ß, even amongst native speakers since the rules about its usage changed in the 1996 spelling reform.

  • The problem of excluding Swiss German (which doesn’t feature the ß) is reduced since the answer to “ß?” may also be no.

  • Unitiated people may have a problem making sense of the logo, but I don’t see this as a problem. I already gave examples in the logo discussion, but particularly consider Japanese Language SE.

14
  • 1
    I love this idea for a logo and would be happy to hear from the other mods on it as well. The Japanese Language SE is also a good inspiration as I believe it fits the clean, modern, and professional look that we are aiming for.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 17 at 11:20
  • 2
    @kplsn: the other mods – and let’s not forget the other users …
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 17 at 11:30
  • 1
    Yes of course :D I'm open to all opinions and comments.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 17 at 11:54
  • I think the most right one on the bottom line does not look too bad. When I was talking about overlays, I thought about semitransparency: The question mark and the ß could share the upper curve (from degrees of 11 o'clock to 4 o'clock). I think, it won't work if one of the two is black. Both could have some different semitransparent colors (say: blue and yellow), and when they overlap, this creates another color (say: green). In your 3 right most examples on the bottom line, these lines are parallel. I think, where they are parallel, they could overlap. May 18 at 20:46
  • Forgot to say: Thanks for the effort! May 18 at 20:47
  • 3
    Just one comment, but not relevant yet, because these are all drafts: I would avoid the black-white-red colorscheme. May 18 at 20:48
  • The more I look at this, the more I think, spanish.SE should have gone with ¿ instead of ñ. Too bad they didn't have you, @Wrlzprmft. :) May 18 at 20:51
  • @JonathanScholbach: I think, where they are parallel, they could overlap. – I added a sketch of this (destroying your reference to the bottom line), but I don’t think it works well.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 21:47
  • @Wrzlprmft Yeah, I see. Would it be too much effort to make an example with semi-transparent colors (opacity=0.5 or something like this)? I think that way the overlap might be easier to conceive than in your example. I appreciate your work and hope it doesn't sound too directive. I would do it myself, but I think as you probably already have a vector graphics of this, it is less effort for you. May 18 at 22:55
  • @JonathanScholbach: See my edit. The middle and right colour-blending examples use “true” transparent elements, with different blend modes. I hope this is what you had in mind. Mind that while I didn’t do a true overlay in the left example, this was mostly to be able to tune the colours more easily. Depending on the blend mode, i.e., how exactly colours are mixed, you can variate things a lot.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 19 at 6:04
  • 4
    I find the bottom right design to be quite pretty, and the context makes it smart as well. I'd be happy to make this the logo if there is consensus on the site! Although I'm curious about the colouring, as the ones here remind me of Brasilien.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 19 at 10:24
  • @kplsn: For the last part, I used the colours Jonathan Scholbach named when suggesting this. At least for me all colours are completely arbitrary (also see my edit).
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 19 at 11:59
  • For whatever it’s worth, after marinating my own suggestions for a while, my own favourite is the second from the right on the third row for the following reasons: 1) I am still not happy with the colour blending. 2) By splitting the eszett at the sharp vertex (and thus removing it), the optical complexity is reduced. 3) It may take longer to recognise the eszett, but then I think a good logo needs not work at first glance, but rather at the third one. — A problem may be whether it works on favicon scale though.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 20 at 18:07
  • 2
    Thank you, @Wrzlprmft. I appreciate all of the feedback and mockups you have provided here.
    – kplsn Staff
    May 23 at 15:07
2

Regarding mood: My personal preference would be to be most serious, modern and simple. Again, I think, the standard design is the best bet for this target -- It looks serious, just because it is standard. It looks modern an will keep looking modern, because it will be updated whenever the standard theme gets updated. It is simple.

2
  • While I generally agree with the tendencies, I wouldn’t go all the way on all axes, for example: It should be serious, but there should be some room left for Law in that direction. While we are not a haven for prescriptionists and it’s good to reflect that, history is also an aspect of every language and therefore I would not go all the way in the modern direction.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 13 at 17:47
  • It looks serious, just because it is standard. – That’s not the feeling a default invokes in me. In particular if we stay within SE, the default is almost inevitably neutral on the fun–serious and classic–modern axis since it is associated with sites from Puzzling to Law and History to Space Exploration. On the complex–simple axis it sits a bit more towards simple, because you cannot have complexity without a direction, but there are still things like shadows, rounded corners, etc. You can get more simple (though I don’t know whether it’s possible within the current SE machinery).
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 13 at 17:59
1

It would be really great if there was an option to change the entire UI to German. This site shall not only be a help for native english speakers learning German but also the other way round. Or just for German speaking people having some grammar questions. In those cases, they might not be fluent enough in english to use an english website.

2
  • 1
    Hey PMF - this is actually very much out of scope for this project. Creating UI in other languages is a huge change and something that requires thousands of lines of text to be translated. We also don't have any tooling currently to allow one site to exist in multiple languages simultaneously. Even when the site has UI in the other language like our non-English SO sites, it's only available in that language.
    – Catija StaffMod
    Jun 14 at 20:07
  • That's what I feared. Bad that this has not been considered when the site was designed.
    – PMF
    Jun 15 at 10:34
0

With regard to logo ideas: I think it is more about avoiding the wrong things here. The signs and logos that stereotypically come up when thinking about German language, are rather to be avoided. I think, this is related to the history and identity of Germany.

Just to make an example: One could consider a letter in a black letter font. But usage of black letter is a matter of debate, as it is heavily used by German Neo-Nazis. I think, we don't want to create associations.
To discuss the examples based on a single letter which had been proposed in the logo thread: spanish.stackexchange chose a letter ñ as base for their logo. There is no good German equivalent: The umlauts ä, ö and ü are not specific for German, and ß does not exist in the Swiss variety of German (and would also easily be confused with the beta letter from greek alphabet).

In general, it is hard to find a logo that is a) recognizable b) telling and c) unproblematic (in the meaning of: it does not raise weird historic associations, or is tied to Germany instead of the German language. Again, looking at english.SE, they failed, as their logo is neither recognizable nor telling.

2
  • Since we now are not constrained in terms of colour anymore, we can use blackletter in pink or rainbow colours to avoid nazi associations. (Just kidding.)
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 13 at 18:11
  • I agree with your objections to ß or umlauts being used used as a logo. It's wouldn't be unusable but I don't see it as an improvement over the "De" logo that currently exists. I think you're right about the English language logo as well, so perhaps the bar isn't set very high. Perhaps another issue with black letter is that it's not unique to German; being used in several languages into the 19th century.
    – RDBury
    Jun 11 at 3:00
-1

The following designs seem to me to be appropriate:

'de' set like Rotis enter image description here

The letters give the impression of Otl Aichers rotis grotesk font design. (Let me be clear: I made this logo to cite the design by Otl Aicher for these three letters, but I did not use any form of font software in the process.)

Color, rounded edges etc. can obviously be changed. While the first one is square, the second one is not. I am not sure if there are technical requirements here.

You could argue de is the ISO country code for Germany (beside the German language code), so would not be country-neutral. The dt. variant is a nod to the common practice in lexica and dictionaries how to mark words as being German.

-3

My strong personal preference is to keep the design of the site as is -- this looks neutral and professional.
I sometimes use https://english.stackexchange.com/. With regard to their theme, it feels they tried something. To me, it looks just old-fashioned, boring and unprofessional. And I fear that would happen with any theme we would come up with.

0
-4

I already expressed my personal preference of keeping the standard theme in another post. I am sorry to add yet another answer here. I chose to do so, because this one contains more background and reasoning than just stating my opinion.

According to a comment on the OP, the following is the purpose of the design:

Site designs are a way to create an identity for the site. The beta theme is bland and shared by 100 other sites. While many themes are simple and clean, the primary goal is to give German Language a design that is a nod to the subject and sets it apart from the other sites. Hopefully someone visiting the site will feel like the theme fits the site's subject.

I think, the design of the site should serve the purpose of the site. To me, the purpose of this site is seeking or giving help and also collaboratively learn and reflect about (German) language. I guess, that is common sense.

I do not see that an identity of the site, making it stand out from other stackexchange sites, would contribute positively to that purpose. To the contrary, I am rather concerned it might get in the way of the attempts of making this an open community which is welcoming to everyone. Emphasizing identities strengthens both in-group and out-group effects. While I believe that the first might be good for a community which is driven by volunteers, I am convinced the latter would hurt the site. I consider the harm bigger than the benefit.

For this site, the concept of identity is particularly problematic. Trying to capture the essence, the spirit, or the identity of German language has strong associations with the idea of Volksgeist from the 19th century, contributing to ideas and concepts revolving around National Psychology and to German Nationalism, with its horrible escalation in the first half of the 20th century. These ideas experience a revival in contemporary far-right ideologies which resort to cultural or linguistic identity in order to rediscover them as grounds for the purpose of othering and discrimination.

The political and historical struggles related to German identity cannot be untied from German language, as the names and contributions of Herder, Novalis, Schlegel, Hegel, and Heidegger illustrate.

Even the debate around the use of black letter, which already popped up in the logos thread, are an example of how the construction of symbolic identities of German language bears associations with ideologies which are, to put it mildly, discriminating at their heart. Making a logo or a theme representing German language will inevitably bear associations with these ideologies. That is why I believe, it should be avoided to try to construct an identity for this page.

With regard to german.stackexchange, the idea of an identity has very different implications than for sites like puzzling.stackexchange, codegolf.stackexchange, or law.stackexchange.

In my opinion, a "bland", neutral, "simple and clean", boring, standard theme that is "shared by 100 other sites" is the best we can wish for for german.stackexchange.

6
  • 1
    (Visual) identity has some effects that I consider to be more relevant and important than splitting people into groups: 1) It helps to distinguish and remember things, just like Jonathan Scholbach is more memorable and distinct than User 15393. Most random Internet users won’t remember a site like ours just by our self-describing name, but they are likely to remember a visual identity once they land on this site again. For every visitor who ever visited another (beta-themed) SE site, we have zero visual identity. […]
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 7:08
  • 1
    2) The mentioned “nod” to the subject also reflects effort (quite literally). With any reasonable design (other than the generic one), an unitiated visitor is much less likely to have the feeling that they arrived at some automatically generated off-the-shelf subsection of some vast Internet thing (which is everything but welcoming). Instead it reflects that we are a place into which people have put some thought and effort. Now, in some sense, this is a group thing, but only in the sense of showing others that we are an somewhat organised group as opposed to a bunch of uncoordinated people.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 7:08
  • @Wrzlprmft Thanks for engaging with the argument. I appreciate it very much. I think, these are fair arguments and they help me understand your position. I could go into more detailed argument. But I think discussing this until we agree would take a lot of effort. I also recognize and accept that apparently I have a minority opinion on this. I will just wait for the new design and logo and see if I will be able to commit myself to it. May 18 at 10:59
  • @Wrzlprmft Maybe the common ground is the following: We should try to create an identity (a uniqueness) for the site, but while doing so, we should not try to capture the identity of the German language. The logo thread with all its black letter proposals and even oak leaves made me fear we would be heading in the latter direction. But your points are going more into the first direction. May 18 at 11:58
  • […] we should not try to capture the identity of the German language – I don’t think that this would be a problem per se, just that it’s pretty difficult to capture without capturing something else. I don’t think anybody (in the world) succeeded so far.
    – Wrzlprmft Mod
    May 18 at 14:37
  • 1
    I find it odd that you posted an additional answer instead of editing the one you posted before. This would be heavily frowned upon on other SE sites. I acknowledge, though, that moderation on this site sometimes works differently (and the principles behind that somewhat elude me).
    – idmean
    May 25 at 16:55

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